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Burnmagazine
A two on one interview with the killer clowns from motor town Insane Clown Posse are legends in Detroit -- not just stars, not just super stars, but legends. Kid Rock might get more love from MTV, and Eminem might get the props from the hip hop elite, but if you took ten ICP fans and put 'em in a room with 100 Kid Rock and Eminem fans, only the ICP fans would walk out on two feet (albeit large red, floppy clown feet). ICP fans are loyal to the core, to the point of insanity. You want proof? Their hardest-core fans cover themselves in clown make-up at every concert and call themselves "Juggalos" to distinguish themselves from all the other hard-core skater kids with clown make-up. These kids will buy anything that features the clowns on the cover. Case in point, a recent cover story in Alternative Press was the reportedly the highest selling issue of all time, over Marilyn Manson, Madonna or Courtney Hole. Their latest album, Amazing Jeckel Brothers, debuted at # 4 on the Billboard Top 200 Chart and has already gone gold, and their previous album The Great Milenko, managed to go platinum even after being dropped by Hollywood Records and widely bootlegged. Hell, these painty face messiahs even played Woodstock!!! So why is Insane Clown Posse, two crazed clown rappers with potty mouths and violent lyrics, and no hit singles or videos, so goddamned popular? Well, first off, the clowns in question, Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, have credibility. Credibility, you say? Those stupid clowns? Yes, oh foolish one, credibility. This wacky duo have been slugging it out in the underground rap scene for nearly a decade now and have released over five full length albums, four EPs, a slew of singles, two greatest hits compilations, and two home videos. "I just climb to the top rope and there's like 10,000 people in front of me and, man, and I'm just like, 'fuck it'. I'll do a backflip off the top rope and the place goes nuts." Combining the shock rock tactics of Kiss with the white boy rap style of early-Beastie Boys, rappers Shaggy 2 Dope and Violent J have carved out a massive following with their special brand of horror-core gangsta rap, carnival theatrics, and wild live shows.
They have also teamed up with the wrestling world, partaking in the bloodsport itself, as well as hosting and promoting events. "When I get in the ring, I'm like, 'fuck it man,'" explains Shaggy 2 Dope. "I just climb to the top rope and there's like 10,000 people in front of me and, man, and I'm just like, 'fuck it'. I'll do a backflip off the top rope and the place goes nuts." In addition, they have their own record company, Psychopathic Records, and have signed and launched the popular alt-rap duo Twiztid. On top of everything, they are finally being welcomed into the rap world, as Snoop Dogg and Ol' Dirty Bastard make guest turns on Amazing Jeckel Brothers. So how did two psychotic clowns from the dirt poor suburbs of Detroit get so far in this fickle business called show? Well, kids, let's take a peak behind the curtain and find out! Formed in 1990 as Inner City Posse, an extension of their street-roving gang of the same name, Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope teamed up and recorded their '91 indie debut Dog Beats to little fanfare from the world of hip hop. Shaggy 2 Dope breaks it down: "We moved to southwest Detroit from the suburbs, and right away, we talkin' like when your sixteen, it was the cool thing was to be in a gang. So we started Inner City Posse, like this is our gang. But we didn't realize that the real gangs had been around for generations, you know what I'm saying?" "And we got a lot of shit," adds Violent J. "We got fucked up 'cause of it. We'd all spray paint ICP everywhere, walk around with ICP rhinestone hats on, and we got fucked up real clean." Although the clown make-up was in full effect, the manifesto had yet to begin. By the time the group recorded their official debut full length as Insane Clown Posse, Carnival Of Carnage, they had formed a concept around their releases in the form of Jokers Cards and an evil little prophecy that like to call the Dark Carnival. The six Cards are a countdown to the end of the world, as ushered in by the worldwide terror of Dark Carnival and the end of the millennium. This apocalyptic vision may have sounded too Dungeons and Dragons for hip hop B-Boys, but the trailer trash white kids in Detroit ate it up like candy and the group quickly became a local sensation. "The way it happened was at the same time that we were dead, down and out, broke, beat up and fuckin' laughed at, the Dark Carnival came along," Violent J reveals. "Some people kept the holy ghost, other people did religions or whatever, for us it was the Dark Carnival. A whole understanding just came to our view. It was like falling in love with a bitch, you know what I mean?" explains J. "It was like falling in love with this thing that just came out of nowhere: we'll paint our faces, we're the Insane Clown Posse. It's like we're a computer and somebody's feeding the data into us: 'You will release six Joker cards, six prophets in the form of joker cards.' And it all made sense, you know? You half believe it and you half don't, yourself. But it's like, the shit, you know what I mean? 'Cause you know it's so magical. We're fans of our own shit, because somebody else is feeding it to us, and that person is the Dark Carnival. It's a very fucking real thing, but at the same time, you think maybe it's just your fucking imagination going boocoo, but it's the shit, you know what I'm saying? It's very, very fresh." "Some people kept the holy ghost, other people did religions or whatever, for us it was the Dark Carnival." Influenced by the local marketing techniques of Detroit rappers Kid Rock and Esham, ICP toured constantly, covering the streets in flyers, making a variety of T-shirts, and selling special tapes and singles to commemorate every major Detroit performance. Violent J remises, "The scene was like this: in the beginning there was Kid Rock, and he had Grits Sandwiches for Breakfast.. He was the first one from Detroit really rappin' to make any noise. There were rappers out before him, but, like, we lived in the suburbs and he was the first one to make any noise in the suburbs. There was all these rappers that had deals that, you know, did a little bit in the city, but Kid Rock seemed like the first star where we lived, you know. He was doing a lot of raw shit, though I never liked any of it. I make it no secrets about it, we were never Kid Rock fans but I do nothing but respect that kid. I take my hat off to him. If I was wearing one, I'd take it off right now!" The clowns also became notorious for their on-stage use of Faygo, a cheap Detroit-based soda that leaves the audience and club sticky and sweet. As their legend grew, they recorded their second full-length album, Ringmaster, and a slew of EPs that continued their tradition of Stephen King/Clive Barker tales of horror mixed with old school beats and rock guitars. Yet no matter how huge the group became in their homeland, like Rappin' Rodney Dangerfield, they still couldn't get no respect. "It was the same thing back then in Detroit on a local level as it is now, nationwide" says Shaggy. "Everybody hated us. Nobody would want anything to do with us. They couldn't understand how we come out of nowhere and sell out venues, you know? Nobody knew where the fuck we were from or what we were doing or nothing. We were just like, 'BAM', right up in their face." Eventually though, the group made enough noise that Jive Records picked them up for their third album, Riddlebox, which featured the underground hit "Chicken Huntin'. Though the album sold well in their stronghold areas, it was not a national hit and the group were dropped by the short sighted label (ironically, the same label to drop Kid Rock years before his current success). More touring and street marketing followed and, eventually, they were picked up by Hollywood Records. However, a widely publicized split with the Mickey Mouse label on the release day of The Great Milenko found the group with an anticipated new album in their hands and no label to release it. Smelling controversy in the air, Island Records bought out their contract, slapped on the tracks that Hollywood had censored, and The Great Milenko was finally released in 1998. Featuring guest spots from Alice Cooper, Slash (ex-Guns n' Roses), and Steve Jones (ex-Sex Pistols), Milenko was the 4th Jokers Card and their heaviest, most consistent album. Despite virtually no radio air-play, and no MTV play, the album quickly went gold and solidified these horrific, wacky clowns into the annals of shock rock history.
But playing the major label game has its drawbacks too. Violent J lashes out at those who criticize the groups move to the majors: "People ask us, 'Why'd you guys sign with Hollywood?' 'Why'd you guys sign with Island?' Yo, it's always something we're fucking up. 'Why'd you guys do Woodstock? I never thought I'd see you on Woodstock.' Muthafucker, I'm gonna play for a hundred thousand people! What's wrong with that? When my music starts being whack, when me and me and Shaggy start making pussy-ass fucking music that doesn't sound anything like it did when we started, that's when we sell out." Shaggy aggress, "Yeah, see the whole thing is we don't bend our rules for nobody. People gotta bend their rules for us, you know. Otherwise the shit ain't goin' down." "We're the biggest joke ever," explains Violent J. "Everybody disses on us, and it's never stopped. My whole fucking life it's never stopped. You ask anybody out there, 'why does ICP sell records?' and they'll tell you it's because we wear clown make-up and throw Faygo on stage and we're just crazy. But when we started off wearing clown make-up and throwing Faygo on stage, for six years they said that was the reason we didn't succeed. Everybody was like, 'if you guys would just quit doing that shit, you might get somewhere. Your music's the shit, but what you do is stupid.' All people want to do is pinpoint your downfall, and make excuses for why you got to where you're at. People said that when Hollywood Records dropped us in '97, and we got all that press out of it, that that's how we got to where we're at. Man, we had already sold 100,000 records at that point, you know what I mean?" "We're the biggest joke ever." Finally, after years of hard work and underground success, ICP has become a nationally successful outfit with a huge fan base, and theater-level tours. Their merchandise and back-catalogue makes a killing and their latest album, Amazing Jeckel Brothers, is a legitimate hit and has launched the band to headlining status on a national level. Having just played Woodstock and currently touring the country with Biohazard and Coal Chamber, ICP have finally broken through to middle America - and middle America will never be the same! And with Island distributing the groups' entire Psychotic Records catalog, ICP fans are sure to have yet another Faygo-filled money pit to dump their parents hard earned cash. But the question remains, will the sixth Joker Card, unleashed at the cusp of the millennium, really lead to the end of the world? "That's just all coincidence too," says Shaggy of the coinciding of the 6th Joker Card with the new millennium. "That's all the Dark Carnival. We didn't actually plot that shit out." J adds, "Yeah, we can't stop the end of the world by not releasing the sixth Joker card, you know, it's not up to fuckin' Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope. We're just watching the world and waiting for our time to come up." Send in the clowns, indeed. Insane Clown Posse released the 5th Joker Card, Amazing Jeckel Brothers, on Island Records this Summer and have been hitting the road ever since. They have completed their first movie called Big Money Hustlers (which stars Fred 'Re Run" Berry and Rudy Ray Moore, a.k.a. Dolomite), and another installment of their famed Stranglemania wrestling video series. Also, make sure to check out the Twiztid album on Psycopathic/Island Records, which features three songs with ICP! Be on the look out for the 6th Joker Card to be released sometime before the end of millennium. |
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